I just read Egg Report’s post on “sexual anarchy”, women, and trust and it ignited much rumination in me. You should subscribe to him as he too is insane. I figured I’d riff on it as I will likely have something to say related to my On Simps post that is taking too long and I am procrastinating finishing.
Summary of his post:
We live in sexual anarchy, where the rules of sexual dynamics have been thrown out the window.
My favorite tidbit:
Culture, and probably everything generative, begins when men can say no to women; when men have something better to do than try to get laid.
The Barely Related and Unnecessarily Long Personal Tangent
I betrayed a friend once in a kinda similar fashion to what Randall describes happened to him. Or at least that’s how my friend perceives it—as betrayal and “fucking his wife”. He was never even dating her and she was never interested. So it’s really only similar in the broad strokes. But we aren’t friends anymore because of it (or at least I think this is why. He never explained and was even more upset at the fact that I didn’t know why he was upset, so I am left to speculate). I don’t have any problem with him, but he has never really talked to me again after the betrayal.
My friend, let’s call him Allan, was probably the closest thing I had to a “best friend “when I was a teenager. We drifted in and out after I started trying to be useful in 2012 but in 2016 when I was going through my Trump voter and Red Pill phase, we started hanging out again.
Allan, bless his heart, is a massive simp. I don’t know if “the ultimate beta orbiter” is exactly an accurate description of Allan but it is pretty close. He is also ftm trans. He was technically a lesbian for most of our friendship but even as far back as when we were fifteen, I and every other person who knew him, perceived him as “one of the boys”. He has generally conservative beliefs, likes to build shit, grill meat, drink beer, ride motorcycles, and get in fights. You, nor really anyone, would know he had bobs and vagine until you became friends with him. I go into him more here but honestly I don’t see his weird gender shit as that relevant to this anecdote. His behavior is frequent among “real” dudes and while it’s technically a component of the story, and thus I won’t leave it out, I’ll just trust you’re capable of not getting all uppity about it and let it cloud the point. Anyway:
Allan is obsessed with women. He has other hobbies too, but he is always trying to talk to, engage with, or please some woman. He always has some girl he’s attached at the hip to (whether they are dating or not is generally complicated), and every one I’ve ever met has been a huge mess psychologically (probably a pre requisite to women who are open to non-heternormative dating). I’ve dated a lot of screwed up women in my life. Most of them in fact (of which my wife may be the only exception; part of why I married her), but Allan really put me to shame in this regard.
Allan has always had this issue where he will literally settle for just about any half cute girl that will give him the time of day. And then he will be the biggest placating beta ever. He literally has “Chivalry is not dead” tattooed across his chest. He will spend his entire paycheck buying them shit (clothes, gifts, movies, cigarettes, adventures, etc) and be completely broke to the point of asking me to loan him money until he gets paid again. Allan is a good dude with a good heart, I think, but he has a lot of issues.
It’s important to note that I hadn’t really put much thought into Allan’s psychological beliefs/dysfunction around women, and certainly not how I factor into it, until years after “the betrayal”. The fact that he terminated over a decade of friendship like it was nothing with basically no explanation for what I still see as a rather minor offense, worth getting in a fight over at most, plagued me for a long time so I’ve thought a lot about what could have possibly justified his behavior in his mind.
Anyway, Allan is very social and spends half his time trying to get friend zoned by HB6/7 art hoes so I was just like “Allan is social and fun to play music with and around chicks and I’m trying to improve my game so I should hang out with Allan more”.
At the time, Allan was orbit gaming this girl, let’s call her Susie. Oh by the way, Allan only ever goes for straight chicks. His general strategy is to become their best friend first and then try to convince them to date him. I don’t think he intends to consciously trick them or anything, but this is what happens. I kind of intuited this at the time but I was a pretty huge pussy who didn’t understand female sexual psychology back then either so never really understood it or what it meant or why what he was doing was dysfunctional and weird.
Looking back, I think Allan always felt some competition anxiety with me. I mean I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt competition anxiety around every real dude with a real penis but perhaps me especially because I was also creative and neurotic and funny and smart and a decent musician like him, so a lot of the women that were into him, probably either were or easily could have been into me. I generally never really considered them, partially because of the whole “bros before hoes” thing; partially because I generally found them just a little too crazy, bitchy, or unattractive; and partially because I just have never been super active about pursuing women (my natural inclination is to just focus on me and if a girl shows interest, then I will consider entertaining that).
However, I think there was at least some degree of annoyance on my part that Allan was always so defensive and possessive of “his” women.
Pretty much every attractive girl in our mutual and extended friend groups, Allan had tried to get at at some point, and thus they were all off limits according to his bro code. Especially the ones that had been curious enough to entertain his advances. But this was literally dozens of girls. Myself being introverted and having no understanding of game at the time, I didn’t naturally branch off and build new networks, so the fact that Allan corralled all of these women as “his” despite pretty much all of them never being interested in him outside of a brief curiosity, was something I, looking back now, was at least marginally annoyed by.
When we were younger and he was still a lesbo and my gf of five years had just dumped me for being a loser, he moved in for a year or so, and he would always throw parties and bring all his dude friends as well as a bunch of girls who friendzoned him who he was still trying to get at. I ended up hooking up with one of them at one point who he was trying to get at a year or so prior but who, if I recall correctly, only ever made out with him one time when she was really drunk and let him orbit for a few months before and after. I think this was the first real “crack” in Allan’s trust of me, though he never said anything. That was “his” bitch and how dare I break the bro code.
Just to be clear, I understand feeling a sense of ownership over exes for men. Men will forever love every woman they’ve ever loved (women however can only love one man at a time). And we have latent programming for polygamy; having a haram of women, notches, present or past, is genetically inbuilt sense of pride for men. And I definitely agree that fucking a homie’s ex is a betrayal. I bring this up only to make explicitly clear that I agree, both in principal and in practice, with “Bros before hoes”.
Anyway, coming back to 2016, Allan was orbiting Susie. I recall, upon first meeting her, asking him (in private) “Who’s she? You slaying?” And he said “oh nah, we are just friends, all yours if you want”.
This was my first mistake. I intuitively knew Allan was lying. He was being a good little beta orbiter and parroting Susie’s view about things, not his own. Maybe Allan was, innate to his biology, shit testing my loyalty, and further, believing that covert communication is the “correct” way to behave. ie say the conflict avoidant thing and they better read between the lines. At the time I thought of none of this. I don’t remember how I replied but I think it was something conveying a nonchalant lack of interest in her, given my default state of only pursuing women who first show interest.
Anyway, there’s a lot more to this story but frankly the whole thing is beside the point and getting way too long so TLDR: eventually she gave me signals and I slept with her and plated her for a few months. She was crazy and while I did develop feelings for her I knew that getting into a relationship with another screwed up woman was the last thing I wanted to do so I kept her at a distance.
He was definitely pissed at first (the first night her and I hooked up, only to second base, was when him, her, and a few others went back to my house and in the car ride back when I dropped them off, he didn’t say a word to her or me). But then he got over it or at least acted like he got over it. Looking back, he definitely did not get over it. If I recall correctly, he didn’t cut me off until after her and I stopped seeing each other (she broke it off because I wouldn’t commit to her).
I recall he and I arguing about it over text at one point (he wouldn’t talk to me face to face so I figured it was better than nothing) and him saying some bullshit that clearly wasn’t how he actually felt (trying to act like it wasn’t a big deal) and then me trying to piss him off to get him to be honest and him saying something like “I’ve been reconsidering our whole friendship after this” and basically alluding to how I’ve always been encroaching on his girls which I still do this day do not understand.
The only time I ever saw him in person, which was months later, he just said “you piece of shit” with this “I’m going to punch you in the face” smirk and went to the other side of the party.
Another thing I never understood is that one of our mutual friends who we’d both been fairly close with for a decade slept with her after I did, but for some reason Allan seemed to have no problem with that and continued to hang out with him (even talking shit about me to him).
Allan did previously say how Susie made up shit about people, so IDK maybe she made up shit about me and Allan is such a white knight that he believed her (nice, bro code, bro). Or maybe she really liked me and not the other dude. I honestly couldn’t tell you.
Looking back, even though I still don’t get it, I definitely did not behave optimally. Some errors I can think of:
My action was partially motivated by the fact that I was more desperate than I ideally would have been, as I was at this time defining myself worth by how many women I could sleep with but was also very new to casual sex (I was always more of a serial monogamist) and so literally any opportunity to have sex with a hot girl was required to be acted upon if I was to deserve existing. This was definitely an error on my part and if I was more socially developed (either in the sense of being more like most degenerate casual sex normans or the sense of more skilled at building and expanding social networks) at the time maybe I wouldn’t have slept with her as I would have had a lot more options.
Another factor was that I wanted to show Allan “this is how it’s done” with the goal of helping him break from his beta simp game and live a better life, just as had happened for me. He was reasonably intellectual, so we had lots of talks about the red pill, among other naughty intellectual topics (HBD and general right wing thought). I thought “watch bro. You clearly want to bang this girl. Let me show you how to attract her and then I will teach you how I did it”. Sure, it would be aggravating for him at first, but I thought we would get past it. I was still naïve at this point about how much simps define their simping as “moral” and “good”, while any “chadly” behavior (ie not dedicating your entire being to to her comfort) as “evil” and “abusive”. He eventually rejected The Red Pill and me with it.
(Note: Apparently Allan’s life is a pretty huge mess these days, he is allegedly now dating Susie’s sister, who even Susie thinks is bat shit crazy (and also isn’t even pretty), and apparently she physically abuses him. Sad. Kill the beta before it kills you, bros.)
And partially I was just sick of following Allan’s perverted version of the bro code and wanted to blow something up.
So what would I have done different knowing what I know now? Well, knowing a lot more about simps, women, and communication, and Allan in particular, I would have had a much more serious and honest conversation about it beforehand. Even if I think his view is dumb, as my friend, he deserves my respect and self-control. Perhaps I would have told him “this is what I want and this is what I intend” and forced him to talk to me about it before it happened.
Heck, maybe his view on this is entirely reasonable and I am just autistic and retarded for thinking it wasn’t that big of a deal. Sadly I’ll probably never know. I was wasted and it came out of nowhere the first time so that was probably unavoidable, but once I was sober I could have probably had a convo with him about it. I do recall being caught up in infatuation, and so probably was dumber than I otherwise would be. And I guess that is a great way to segue into the actual point of this post.
(eh last note before I move on: Men new to game are the most dangerous to themselves and to women. You can have all the theories and catch phrases drilled into your head, but until you fully integrate it, until it becomes second nature, and women and sex truly are a compliment rather than the sole object of your life, you are still blue pilled and a simp.)
As usual, that was a huge tangent and doesn’t really have much to do with the philosophical point of Randolph’s post nor was it, despite any seeming similarity, intended to be commentary on the Eggmeister’s personal experience with the matter outside of the general theme of “a time where I too had a traumatic run in with principles of bro code” (I can understand and would probably feel the same as he did if I were in his shoes, something I cannot say about Allan).
In retrospect, writing this out was more an integration exercise, as I have never written about it and haven’t thought about it in years. but it’s initial purpose was just to propose the question:
What might my experience around bro code, women, and the Red Pill have to contribute to this idea?
Continued in this post.