Burgundy Pill: Plate Spinning Is Antisocial, Parasitic, and Preventing You From Finding Quality Women - Ch 1: Conscience Edition

the case against plate spinning for the pro-social e-boy

Note: This is chapter one of a multi part series. You can find the series’ purpose and a table of contents here.

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Thinking more about my shit tests post, there is actually one more pretty important reason a woman will continually “shit test” you that is not either A. She is defective or B. She thinks you’re a fag. 

And it’s C. it’s not actually a shit test, it’s just her being pissed you are autistically keeping her at an artificially limited commitment level (“plating” her) when what you should be doing is removing commitment entirely (“nexting” her) or increasing commitment accordingly (upgrading her).

This trouble occurs because “plate spinning”, is actually an MVP, not a fully fleshed out, mass-market product.

Plate Spinning As MVP

Like I go into in the original Burgundy Pill, TRP developed out of disagreeable, dark triad men seeking to maximize sexual access to women. With this aim, TRP’s standard model, “spinning plates”, is the optimal (amoral) strategy.

If for some reason you’re a newfag who didn’t follow the first rule of the Burgundy Pill (to take the red pill first): “Spinning plates” is a dating methodology for gaining you experience with women while maximizing sexual access consisting of:

• casually dating multiple women at the same time

• putting a hard cap, regardless of any specific woman’s LTR quality, on how much commitment you will ever offer

• obfuscating and deflecting when pressed about any “stall” in the progression of commitment

• doing this recursively until eventually she gets fed up or wises up and breaks it off (“breaking plate”)

• then just replacing her with a new plate

• repeat

This is contrasted to the older PUA strategy of going through the effort of finding new women every night which is a lot of work. Spinning plates affords much more sexual access with far less effort.

However, classic plate spinning:

A. is not something even the majority of amoral Machiavellian men are interested in over the long-term (how are you going to take over the world without a queen and some progeny?).

B. is not something most men who believe in (or feign to believe in) any kind of pro-social moral-framework will do at all (most men, making it not scalable).

C. due it’s artificial nature, creates its own set of problems that would otherwise not exist in a more “natural” scenario. The primary of these being that women, no matter how agreeable, don’t just roll over and accept this asymmetric relationship model without a fight (and ultimately significant blowback).

Tension, Hostility, and Resistance

Women are the gate keepers of sex; men are the gate keepers of commitment. When the progression of a women’s primary desire (commitment) stalls they not only notice, but they see it as a ̶b̶e̶e̶g̶ ̶y̶o̶s̶h̶i̶ big problem.

Stalling commitment progression for women is the equivalent of stalling sexual progression for men.

Imagine: you’ve never heard of plate spinning or any kind of weird, consciously engineered sexual strategy. You meet a new woman and you guys really hit it off. Great chemistry, great attraction, etc. You have a normal sexual progression after the first few dates, getting to second base. But then, no matter what you try to get past it, you keep getting resistance for 3rd and when probing as to why getting weird, deflective, incongruent explanations. Everything else is going great but just this one (big) thing has some kind of unexplainable and unresolvable stall. Eventually after getting run around for long enough, you realize she isn’t actually sexually attracted to you (or, more aptly, she has been convinced by some e-girl dating forum that the only way she will ever get the attention she craves is to fight against her desire and perpetually withhold sex), instead just gaslighting you to maximize the amount of attention (precursor to commitment) she can extract until you wise up to her game. When you put yourself in a woman’s shoes like this and realize you would respond more or less the same way she does to being plated, things begin to make more sense. 

If you score high on Dark Triad traits (Machiavellianism and psychopathy in particular) and see your objective simply as the maximization of sexual access, women only tools to the end, creating this anxiety in women is not only not a problem, but something you actually want. Given that women are temperamentally more agreeable (conflict avoidant, compassionate) and neurotic (lower self-esteem, higher self-reflection), they will almost always assume this stall is because they are doing something wrong—that they are somehow not meeting their end of the bargain—and thus, rather than instigate a frank discussion about it, will just increase their commitment and sexual access in an attempt to “make things even again”.

More sex. More trying to please you. More submission. More fighting for your approval. What more could a late-modern sex-enjoyer ask for?

Eventually though, after she feels she has tried everything covert and still is not getting her needs met, she will break character and be overt. “What are we?” “Are we exclusive?” “Are you seeing anyone else?” etc. 

This situation is so common for plate spinners that there are literally canned responses for dealing with it.

Given that being up front about your lack of interest in commitment will almost certainly cause her to end the relationship—cutting short your sexual escapade—and to claim exclusivity would be to either cuck or unequivocally lie, the only option left, and the strategy recommended, is to obfuscate, deflect, and gas light. 

And this works. Because women, especially younger ones who can afford the risk, will, despite their intuition, fall for it. They’ll be open to the possibility that they were just misperceiving or had unreasonable expectations or that you will commit eventually but “you’re just not ready”.

Such is especially true for A. naïve (usually exceptionally low dark triad) women with little to no trauma who still think that men will protect them and tell them the truth or B. women who have so much trauma (usually exceptionally high dark triad) that they don’t see any other option than to perpetuate this cycle of hopping from bastard to bastard hoping one will finally protect them. Depending on the SMP experience-disparity, you can easily make it months or even a year getting a “free ride” of sex from these women simply by “successfully” Houdini-ing your way out of these conversations.

Eventually though, after trying everything she can think of, including several overt requests for commitment, the resentment will build up (or she will wise up that she has been played all along), and the relationship will end. The “plate will break”. It is for this exact reason that plate theory advises you to be spinning multiple plates at a time, so you never lose access to sex.

Externalities

Beyond the immediate interpersonal hostility that plate spinning cultivates, there are much larger long term social ramifications. As although not overtly lying about your intentions, plate spinning is still fundamentally deceitful and, worse, parasitic and socially degenerative. It exacerbates not only the decline of women but men too. Which ultimately leads not only to the perpetuation but the acceleration of the problem that got us in this shitty sexual market clusterfuck in the first place. 

Before you get all uppity about my language, let me first make clear: I’m not saying anything special. Gaining something for yourself at the expense of others is literally the definition of being “Dark Triad”. Given that many in TRP take being called “Dark Triad” as a complement, often going so far as to compete for scores on the test as a status symbol, this shouldn’t really be controversial. If you recoil simply because the euphemisms got removed, maybe you’re not as “Dark Triad” and “Alpha” as you think. 

And second: I use this language not to enact some kind of moral-judgment brow-beating (morality isn’t real anyway, just memes seeking to reproduce themselves), but simply as autistic, emotionless dictionary definitions. To expand:

How else would you describe “lying by omission” other than “deceitful”? And even if it weren’t, you aren’t just lying by omission anyway. You are actively saying things that are not only knowingly misleading but which you yourself don’t believe. Not sure there’s any other way to slice it.

To illustrate through our role reversal example: if she knew all along she was never going to sleep with you, but kept letting you believe it was going to happen so she could extract maximal attention before you wise up, what would you call that behavior? What do you call that behavior when all the e-thots with their harems of simp orbiters do it? And these women are far less conscious of what they are doing than any guy who even knows what the term “plate spinning” is.

As a plate spinner, you know she believes things are progressing toward more commitment. And you know that if she didn’t believe this she wouldn’t be sleeping with you. Which is why you let her believe it. You can argue definitions of “lying” or whether its “moral” or “immoral” or whatever if you’re into gay shit like that but ultimately it’s beside the point. What is indisputable—simply from a descriptive standpoint—is that what you’re doing is, one, deceptive and, two, results in a zero-sum extraction of value for yourself at the expense of the current or future value of others (parasitic).

No woman is better off with one more failed relationship. By TRP’s own cannon: every sexual partner is damage to a woman. And the more invested she is in that sexual partner when it fails the more damage it causes to her (eg “Alpha Widow”ing). This is especially true for naive, low N-count women. Alpha Widowing a slut is just one more scar on an already damaged woman. But Alpha widowing what was formerly “gentle and warm mom material” turns them into “neurotic Machiavellian game player” (or, if they are just too agreeable for this,  into “depressed spinster wine aunt who adopts animals”). Either way: by spinning plates, you are breaking plates, and by breaking plates you are breaking women.

If you have no problem with lying, extracting one-way value from people, and causing damage to individuals and the future for your short-term benefit; if you are legitimately psychopathic (again, using this term simply as a technical descriptor not some kind of persuasion-through-moral-indictment) this argument is not for you. You keep on keepin’ on king. Maybe Part Two will resonate better.

But most plate spinners aren’t this type of man. Evident by the fact that they had to read TRP to start performing this behavior. Sociopaths do this naturally. The rest are either autistically unaware or willfully self-deluded (probably both) about the long-term negative consequences of their behavior. Because being such is the only way they could figure out how to set boundaries and get their sexual needs met.

But the truth is that plate spinning fundamentally maintains the zero-sum mindset of the Blue Pill. The only difference is that is inverts the beta belief of “I will sacrifice my needs at the altar of women” to the “alpha” belief of “I will sacrifice women at the altar of my needs”. 

We’ll go more into fixing this in part four. And more on why even if you’re highly dark triad that plate spinning is preventing you from getting youre needs met in part two. For now, let’s really hammer this conscience thing, and go balls deep ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) into the argument.

Blowback

It is generally not a matter of if but a matter of when (and with whom) any ex-plate will have a child. Given that she is more or less guaranteed to be a mother of a boy at some point, one must ask: what kind of mother will she be if she’s been run through by every dude in town? Or even just alpha widowed hard af? How will she treat her sons? Will she give them the proper affection and love and appreciation they and their masculinity deserve? Or will she be vindictive and vengeful, crushing all signs of it?

Further, will she be able to lock down a high value man who will teach them to be strong, powerful, and competent? Or will every failed relationship only make the next one more likely; every flighty “alpha” widening the hole through which the next one will enter, ultimately leaving her no choice—whether it be from the stank that emanates or just her own fear of “having it all happen again”—but to settle for some “white knight beta cuck” who will turn them into “shitlib soyjack consoomers”?

The reason you were broken in the first place, the reason you had to swallow the redpill late in your life, the reason you had to undergo the relational trauma that first led you to TRP, is because you were raised in an environment just like this. By traditional plate spinning, you are not only damaging women, but perpetuating the very problem in future men which you yourself are trying to recover from. Yes, you may only be contributing a small percentage to this. But when hundreds of thousands if not millions of men are using the same strategy, that effect becomes rather significant. A tsunami is just a bunch of tiny individual water droplets. And it can still destroy a city.

Perhaps you protest “I can’t do anything about her being a slut. It’s not my fault the world is this way. Someone’s going to sleep with her. The additional damage I will do is close to nothing. I might as well get my needs met too.”

First: What a beta-ass scarcity mindset. If you still can’t get women to sleep with you without lying to them, you might as well just start your transition to ms. anon, because you’re NGMI as a man.

Second: she is a dumb woman. According to TRP’s own canon: women are not capable of agency in the way that men are. She has the decision-making capacity of a teenager. Cognitively, all women are underage. You don’t get to pick and choose when you ascribe agency to women based on when it is sexually convenient to you. Either men have more agency—and thus are responsible for protecting women from themselves—or they don’t and complementarianism is wrong (taking TRP with it).

Third:

Why do you think she is a slut? Do you think she likes being a slut? If she does, why then is she trying so hard to lock you down? Oh, is it perhaps that she actually hates being a slut but is just so damaged by her relationship with her own father, previous men, and our current culture that she doesn’t know how else to feel she’s worth anything other than to give away sex to any man with a nonzero SMV who will take it, hoping eventually one will find some value in her beyond sexual availability? (Spoiler: it is).

Sluts are addicts. Of course they enjoy getting railed by chad while it’s happening. Drug addicts love getting high while it’s happening too. But that doesn’t change that it is a side effect of trauma, dysfunction, and cultural degeneration. And it is destroying their life and future, every time they get high only making the problem worse.

Sluts are to women what simps are to men—damaged people who perceive that they have no self-worth and thus see no option but to give away their greatest asset without any vetting or boundaries, hoping someone will eventually reciprocate and validate that they deserve to exist.

And these broken women will not only go on to raise more broken men, but those broken men will go on to raise more broken women, primed to be more low-self-esteem sex-farms just like her.

Yes, “she has daddy issues”. Dudes say this like it’s somehow her fault. She did not choose her weak or absent father, she was a vulnerable child who was ignored, left alone, not protected, not guided, and likely sexually abused (1 in 4 women are sexually abused as children). Yes all the stupid bullshit she does and says (like being a slut or crazy or a feminist or whatever it may be) is just her projecting her trauma onto the world. But under that is a vulnerable child who was abused. And by siphoning her beauty and sexuality and femininity from her, just like everyone else has, you are perpetuating this.

The truth is that it’s turtles all the way down. She is a slut due to childhood dysfunction that her father was responsible for preventing and he failed. Which happened because her mother was responsible for picking a man who would protect her daughter and she failed. Which happened because her own father failed to protect and teach her, which happened because her own mother failed to lock down a quality man, which happened because… on and on, back and back in it goes, the responsibility diffused far and wide; the same game with the same causes with the same rationalizations made by its players for generations, the fault with everyone and thus no one.

At some point, someone has to say “enough is enough. The buck stops with me”. You can be a cog in the wheel of history if you want; abdicate responsibility and live life as a NPC, “enjoying the decline”. You wouldn’t be the first and you won’t be the last. But don’t LARP that you are some kind of “courageous and generative man of strength and a master morality”, or even that you have any more agency than women. If you’re going to take the path of least resistance, gratifying limbic pleasures like a monkey and deluding yourself with convenient fictions like a slave, then at least have the balls to own it.

This is Not License to Be a Fag

Before we move on to Part 2: Narcissist Edition, I just want to be very clear:

Don’t mistake the above as some kind of endorsement to white knighting.

First: my goal with this piece is simply to ensure you have open eyes to the not-obvious externalities of your behaviors, as such is a pre-requisite to making informed decisions that will get you the long term results you truly desire. The last thing you want is to spend a decade doing high time preference shit you’ll later pay for, not knowing that’s what you’re doing until the bill comes in.

If you think it’s a debit card and that you make $100 an hour, but it’s actually a credit card with a 25% interest rate and you only make $10 an hour, don’t you think you’d want to know that? Maybe spinning plates until you’re bald and flaccid really is the best move for you. But you can’t claim certainty of that until you’ve read and fully considered the Terms and Conditions.

Second: White knighting isn’t a pro-social view about women or society anyway. It is simply beta game (placating, begging, etc) masquerading as heroism in an attempt to acquire female sexual access for weak, incompetent losers.

Devising strategies that factor in yourself, women, society, and the future requires that you be powerful and say no to women, something they won’t like. White Knights are incapable of saying no to women, regardless of what the consequences of such weakness will be for everyone in the long run.

You obviously can’t prevent women from choosing to make self-destructive choices with other men (and you shouldn’t try). However, if your goals are to be a generative man of honor who leaves the world better than he found it then you have a duty, if to nothing other than your own conscience, to at least minimize your own contribution to our decline.

Ultimately, my objective in evoking your conscience about this is not to get you to go back to the old, obviously inferior way of playing this zero sum game. If it has to be zero sum, you might as well win. My objective is to convince you, or at least get you to consider, that zero sum games are fucking gay. And that axiomatically assuming zero sum games are the way life works is for weak losers and morons.

Every great man you or anyone else respects, every great man who has contributed long lasting value to the human race, doesnt believe in zero sum. And If you want to become someone you’d actually respect, and someone who is actually a net positive for the world, then you must break free from this “win lose” mindset that still dominates your thinking.

Now that you’ve gotten enough of a taste for what it’s like to win, it’s time to lay to rest these stepping stone strategies of parasite (red pill) and host (blue pill) and replace them with that of a positive-feedback-loop-generating collaborator (burgundy pill). To start thinking in ways that not only allow you to win without other’s losing in the process, but ultimately where your wins make them more likely to win, and their wins more likely to make you win, spiraling upward into some big beautiful win-fest of epic proportions.

If you’re not ready for that yet, that’s okay. I’ll be here when you are.

Also Part 2 might help.

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