Burgundy Pill: Plate Spinning – Chapter 3: Spicy Edition
Why I was wrong and the feminists are right
Note:
This is chapter three of a multi part series. You can find the series’ purpose and a table of contents here.
Chapter two can be found here.
So I’ve been working on this series for over a month, and yesterday realized my central thesis is completely wrong. Or at least, there are two whole new previously undiscovered cave systems I have not explored (to my credit, neither has anyone else).
Rather than start over (lol ya right) I’m just going to add this addendum haphazardly in the middle, and then tie it all together in part four. This piece will itself have two key insights which are somewhat antagonistic to the previous pieces, the first being kind of interesting I guess but the second being hot spicy fire town and will hopefully trigger far and wide.
The root of this “pivot” stems from the fact that I always have in the back of my mind (the last few weeks, much more at the forefront) what my plate spinner friends and acquaintances or just general Redpill e-boys would say or counter my arguments with. I’m always trying to understand their psychology and sexual objectives, knowing full well they are much different than mine, so as to account for any biases or errors in my thinking to ultimately build a more complete map. And while I do still hold that there is some degree of willful self-delusion involved, and further, of social dysfunction and destruction of women and the future occurring in the process, the critical question I have not yet adequately asked is:
compared to what?
Is There Harm in Exploiting NPCs For Loot?
Quick story time:
I have a buddy who is pretty Machiavellian and reasonably capable of complex thought who was raised hella Christian and spent most of his 20’s in an LTR with one chick (who was mediocre). TLDR is: they broke up, he had a decent amount of a mental reformatting (trauma) about it, discovered TRP, and now is out playboying it up. I see him post on Instagram often—partying in some new hot travel destination with the bros, surrounded by some half clothed thots in hotels or clubs, assuredly many of which he has dicked down—and seeing one of these posts the other day led me to the first of this article’s insights (or rather reminded me of something I’d long forgotten):
There is massive quality difference, almost to the point of being a different species, between your typical normie woman that 99% of TRP canon is based on compared to the rare, actually intelligent, actually self-aware, actually capable-of-overriding-their-base-limbic-brain women that I relationally engage with.
The only women I have ever dated or plated was these types of latter “higher minded” women, dating the reasonably functional ones, and plating the ones that were too fucked up to date. The rest of women, who are by far the majority, I literally find repulsive to the point that I can’t even tolerate talking to them let alone courting them long enough to shag, something all my RP bros remain eternally confused by (and I for a long time felt a lot of shame and self attack about). They just are so vapid, solipsistic, superficial, and self-deluded in all the ways the Incels or TRP anger-phasers screech about that if my choice were between fapping alone in my room or banging them, I’d pick the former without a second thought.
Side note: I now finally understand the annoying af incel women-hater position. Most Incels are just turbosperg thinkbois who have never met one of these “higher minded” women (perhaps too autistic to attract them). For whatever reason, I’ve been able to find dozens over my life, but maybe if I hadn’t or couldn’t, I’d have ended up with the same toxic mindset they have.And when it comes to these normie women, their behavior (constantly flaunting sexuality, maximally solipsistic and hypergamous, hamster extraordinaires, promiscuous, “partying”, etc) is probably a lot more innate temperament than trauma-induced-dysfunction like it is in the “higher minded” women. Hell I don’t know, maybe even the beta losers who white knight and suck up to these chicks aren’t that “emotionally broken” either and it’s just that they too are simply homo sapiens (cringe) rather than homo Aspergers chads (based). Though I think this unlikely.
Point is: if I could tolerate the borderline-unconscious NPC women enough to fuck them, I probably would. And I probably wouldn’t feel any remorse about ONSing or plating them. I mean they are practically begging to get pumped and dumped. Is it really so wrong to give them exactly what they’re asking for? And I think this is the key insight into exactly why plate spinning is a thing, and why most men who are intelligent and competent enough to not be cucks don’t have any sort of crisis of conscience about it. If I were just a little dumber, a little more Machiavellian, and a little more tolerant of “normal” social behavior, I’d probably be out there spinning NPC chicks and enjoying the decline with the rest of ‘em.
But, for better or for worse, I’m not a little dumber, a little more Machiavellian, and a little more tolerant of this goofy monkey brain bullshit. Understanding the long-term social consequences of my and others’ behavior is not something I have to sit down and force myself to think about, but something that comes so effortlessly and naturally that I have to battle constantly to actively suppress (I don’t really have to anymore as I have more or less ejected all normies from my life, but when I was growing up deep behind enemy lines it was a pretty much a requirement to avoid complete social exile).
However, this doesn’t mean that my former assessments were fundamentally wrong. The conclusions remain more or less sound, just the arguments in need of some polish. I still think it holds up that exploiting the grug women to gratify your impulsive pleasures is harming not only them—accelerating their revolt (feminism) which harms future men—but also you too, right now.
Because the truth is that the grugs aren’t “NPCs”. They are real characters. They’re just more like your 8 year old brother who can barely aim and throws the controller every time he dies than fully functioning adult. They suck at the game, they’re comparatively retarded, easy to see as “lesser”, tempting as hell to fuck with and stat-pad on, and how much is the “right” amount to exploit their stupidity and immaturity for your own amusement and upleveling is not obvious.
It is clear that if you just keep killing him over and over, eventually he will start crying or complain to mom and get you in trouble (eg proletariat revolution, feminism, BLM, etc), so that’s obviously too far, but should you really just not take advantage of him at all? It’s free points not to mention free amusement. Is it really so bad?
Personally, I can see the validity of Conscience Edition being shaken a bit by this updated frame, but whether it’s enough to disregard entirely seems unlikely. But it doesn’t really matter anyway because, as far as Narcissist Edition is concerned, it makes the case equally if not more valid.
The second and much more spicy realization of this post however may not be so kind to Narcissist Edition though. Let’s explore it and find out.
The Alternative to Plate Spinning Is Rape
With the above revelation in mind, I was reading through and editing Narcissist Edition, and got to this line:
Even if you were some kind of gigachad who could sleep with dozens of women back in pre-historic times, you’d eventually get bogged down by all the children you had to take care of. How many children with how many different women could even the top 10% of men have popped out before they would have no choice but to slow down and focus on the commitments they’d racked up?
This got me thinking about Genghis Khan, most of whose progeny were certainly a byproduct of rape rather than consent. Which then got me thinking “why would men have such an insatiable desire for sex, so intense as to have such a propensity to rape, if for most of human history you’d get instakilled for raping a woman in your tribe”? And then I realized: obviously it’s because this drive to rape is not toward women in the ingroup but toward women in the outgroup. And further, that plating is a way of diverting this inbuilt programming to rape the outgroup toward something that is, comparatively, far less destructive.
The truth, I realize now, is that the wacko feminists are right: much if not most of your sexual access for all of evolutionary history came from raping the women from tribes you conquered. It was mostly only the top level men who had wives from within your tribe, the rest having, at most, concubines from conquest (assuming they didn’t just kill them).
Note 1: These high-level men certainly went on raiding parties too. Likely even getting the first pick of the women. It was unlikely they had any motivation to sexually dominate their own wives; they were nice to them. Their sexual aggression reserved, and likely even evolving in the first place, solely for the rape of these “outgroup” women.
Note 2: This is also probably what the whole beta-white-dudes importing asian chicks or other foreign chicks from other countries is all about. Lower status men who get rejected by ingroup women have been getting chicks from weaker outgroups for all of human history. The insatiable male drive for sex does not exist solely because it furthers procreation. A huge factor is that it massively incentivized expansion into new regions and growing larger tribes. The more sex obsessed men were, the more motivation they had to go on raiding parties of enemy tribes, which had selective advantage in not only destroying competitors for resources but also leading to “absorption” of those tribes, ultimately making the tribes bigger (and, in the event of captured women getting pregnant, sending the genetics for insatiable male sexual desire forward into the next generation).
Yes, that’s right. Not only was war and conquest a prerequisite to humans ever cultivating societies larger than small tribes (boring and known) but equally as critical to achieving what we have today was the mass practice of rape (based and spicy).
This may also be why there is a high correlation with lower classes being more R-selected and upper classes being more K-selected; not just for cultural or socio-economic reasons, but genetic ones.
Note: obviously Im aware that R-selection is antagonistic to civilization and stable social structures and that it often causes lower class outcomes. And further that parsing out “nature vs nurture” or even just cause vs effect is tricky business. However I am proposing the possibility that, like in any complex system, cause and effect is a dance rather than a one way street, and thus that the type of temperaments and behaviors that populate the lower class may have an innate genetic or at least epigenetic drive toward promiscuity. We see plenty of things similar to this in other genetics research, particularly between temperaments between races. If it were true with this as well, it would certainly at least be consistent with observation.This may further explain the correlation with higher time preference racial groups having significantly higher rates of rape, even decades or generations after being “integrated” into lower time preference civilizations.
Assuming the Winter’s Theory of racial disparity as at least plausible (that European and east Asian genetic lines had a selective pressure to develop lower time preference, higher IQ, and more K-selection due to cold winters which required better coordination with the outgroup, better long term planning, and less children with higher investment etc a pressure that was not as pronounced in warmer climates), it would fit nicely that this same environment pressure would ultimately lead to the taming of male promiscuity and rape-motivation hard enough and long enough (no pun intended) to result in genetic changes in sexual temperament.
But disregarding these-maybe-true-maybe-not hypotheses about races or disparate genetic groups: it is indisputable that rape played a massive role in the programming of male sexual behavior, most of which’s code still lies nascent (or fully active just repurposed) in men today.
Note: Really, this shouldn’t be news to you. Rollo talked about this over a decade ago in a canonical TRP piece, War Brides. It’s just that it, as TRP tends to do (and one of my core frustrations with it), only analyzes female sexual motivation, assuming male sexual motivation as axiomatic and not really worth exploring.This “rape and pillage” programming of the outgroup is the root reason you want to sexually dominate women and as many of them as possible. Contrary to TRP canon (and probably evolutionary psychologist at large who have pesky things like reputations to worry about), it’s not because you want to spread your seed far and wide. Or at least that’s not all it is and maybe not even most of it. It’s because wanting to go out and conquer other tribes, kill their men, rape their women, and take them as concubines (and kill the ones who don’t comply, which is why War Brides is a thing) is what you were designed to do.
Obviously today, at least in not-third-world countries, you can’t do what you were “designed” to do. You would go to jail. But that doesn’t make the programming go away. It just suppresses it at best, and, more likely, diverts it into some surrogate activity (ex sports and video games are just simulated war and BDSM is simulated rape-and-pillage-ing).
Note: maybe in some men this drive truly does not exist. But it's unlikely. In "alpha" men it is more than apparent, and in "Beta" men it is simply repressed. This becomes pretty obvious when examining pornography trends, 4chan or other places where man can speak anonymously without consequence, and even just in my own personal anecdotal examination of “beta nice guys". Unless his T levels are lower than a Buzzfeed journo, there is an aggressive beast lurking within him.
Hell, even for myself, I was very sexually tame with no desire for “power” or to “dominate” anyone or anything, until I discovered TRP and lifting weights and all the rest, which finally allowed me to start exploring this side of me that very much was always there, simply turned inward as self loathing and depression rather than outward as power and status seeking.So this brings us back to our initial question of: compared to what?
Is plate spinning “anti social, parasitic, and bad”or whatever? Maybe. But compared to what the program was built to do, it’s unicorns and fucking rainbows. In the same way that, sure, its “bad” for your life that your dog eats his own shit, kills bunnies, and doesn’t come when you call him. But when compared to a wolf who would murder you and feast on your guts for a week, dogs are beta af.
So does this unseat the idea that your life is highly limited by only spinning plates? Kind of? Plate Spinning (surrogate rape-and-pillage-ing) is half the equation. And having a wife and children the other half.
I guess it’s theoretically possible that only low status men inherently would not seek a wife and family. Which is based cause it flips the plate spinner worldview on it’s head. Plate spinning is for beta low status males. Get fucked!
If a high status male had to choose, rape and pillage vs wife and family, would the latter not be the correct choice? Seems like if it were inverted, where the low value men have the ingroup wives, that would benefit the outgroup more than the ingroup, no? But maybe thats wrong. I guess it doesn’t ultimately matter too much, because we dont live in that world anymore. Unless your’re some kind of 200 IQ turbo genius doing something that will be remembered for a thousand years, if you dont reproduce: you and your genes will be made a failure.
I guess that’s all I have to say on those two for now. In part four, we’ll bring all this together and figure out how the hell to update our map to more effectively navigate the SMP given this. Stay tuned.
edit: Chapter 4.1 here.